Me Geek, You Geek

This debate started here and has remained friendly and cordial. And that's because we all want some of Christine's chocolate billy clubs for Christmas!

Alright everyone I want to lead with this first.  Please don't misunderstand.  I have been a Daredevil fan for a long time.  Bart can vouch for me.  I have every Daredevil issue of the main title except for # 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7.  (My wife bought me #4 for Christmas one year...what a gem I have.) 

I have most every DD action figure proudly displayed in a showcase closet and every DD Bowen statue proudly displayed in a glass case.  I have a reprint canvas of DD #181 signed by Marv Wolfman.  And I have a DD thong that I wear every day. 

Okay, maybe that last part isn't true. 

Or is it?

I just wanted to point this out so you didn't think I'm some smug newcomer to the DD mythos.  I've been through the early years, the 90's, and I even stayed with him when he moved to San Francisco (ugh).

So with that in mind, here is more fodder for our debate.  I boned up on research and want to throw this in the mix.

Since my beef is not with the plot (I think we all agree the characterization and the story are good in Brubaker's run ) but with the lack of action or excitement or the lack of DD being in the book in costume very much at all.

So I went back to Issue #106 and started looking through why I was having a cow about the lack of action/costume scenes in Issue #113.  Certainly, if this was a one issue event and it was building plot I wouldn't be reacting this way.  But what I found was nothing but a one issue deal.

Here are the numbers for in costume/action pages:

1. Issue #106: 5 pages (23%)
2. Issue #107: 5 pages (23%), there was actually more action pages in the three page Moon Knight preview in the back of the comic.
3. Issue #108: 2 pages (9%)
4. Issue #109: 5 pages (23%)
5. Issue #110: 12 pages (55%) Yea!
6. Issue #111: 0 pages (00%) This is the "dirty dog" issue where Matt gets some action in bed, but nothing that is heroic by any means.
7. Issue #112: 0 pages (00%) Are you kidding me?
8. Issue #113: 8 pages (36%) The issue that started this debate.

So there you have it.  The last 8 issues from Brubaker.  Ugh.  Not much action or costume fun in store.  This is a comic book right? With superheroes and costumes and action?  Hmmm....  

Darediva (great name by the way), you didn't like Guardian Devil?  What?  Okay, I have to ask this then, if you don't mind.  Where you a DD fan for at least five years before DD:GD came out?  Because there is an historical nature that has to be appreciated as we DD lovers moved into the DD:GD arc.

We had to put up with some horrible DD stories for a while before the relaunch.  And the relaunch only came after the talks about simply canceling DD and being done with horn head for good.  The horrors. 

And I recently went back and reread the Guardian Devil trade and I think it stands to this day.  The talk between Matt and Peter, when Peter gets Matt off of the pity potty, that was a great DD moment. 

Karen Page died too!  And they haven't resurrected her.  And the issue following the death of Karen Page, with DD having flashbacks of her, those conversations were great and really cemented what could have been if she didn't swallow the billy club.  DD and Karen talking about how he would hang it up once they had kids. Great stuff. 

And the characterization of DD and the Black Widow throughout the run and especially after the funeral, what a great piece.

And since I am somewhat using this GD arc as a measuring stick for the current Lady Bullseye run, or Brubaker's run in general, I went back and did some research on the amount of costume/action scenes in the GD run.  The results are:

1. Issue #1: 7 pages (32%)
2. Issue #2: 4 pages (18%)
3. Issue #3: 10 pages (45%)
4. Issue #4: 10 pages (45%)
5. Issue #5: 20 pages (91%!!)
6. Issue #6: 19 pages (86%)
7. Issue #7: 19 pages (86%)
8. Issue #8: 7 pages (32%)

Wow.  You just look at these figures and think, that is how you pace a comic book run.  Start with some build up of story and characters.  Build suspense.  Build the action.  And then deliver.  Deliver through issues 5-7.  Reach the climax and then wrap it up and slow it down in the last issue.

And what impresses me about this run is that even issue #20, with 91% action/costume scenes, maintained characterization and plot progression.

If we compare the over all averages of costume/action scenes from these two 8 issue runs, Guardian Devil weighs in at 54% an issue, while the Bru run weighs in at 21% an issue. Quite the difference. 

Christine?  I love ya, please don't ban me from your site, I love reading your opinions and view points! And please (PLEASE!!!) still send me some chocolate billy clubs! 

Francesco, I accept your points.  When I was saying he got his ass kicked I was exaggerating.  Getting his ass kicked is like what he did in the Typhoid Mary issues....now that was an ass kicking!  I guess what I meant is that he was defensive, which might be a great virtue of a fighter/superhero.

But if somebody attacked me going by the same name of the butt munch who killed my lady, I'd see red, launch in to her and find out the connection to Lester after she was lying in a puddle on the rooftop.  But that's just me.

So what is my point?  I don't know.  Ha.  What is all of our points?  This is basically it: we all like DD for different reasons.  And for all these reasons he still kicks ass.

(And for all these reasons I will still pick it up.  If they change Daredevil to talking about interior decorating I will still pick it up.  it's the completist in me.)

Now, not to be outdone, here is a response from sometimes contributor, and all time reader, Bart.  I think he has some good points regarding the progression of all comics lately:

Hello...Jon:

Just read your latest post.  I have to agree with you completely.  And, I believe your commentary can be applied to the entire Marvel Universe.  All build up, no pay off. 

Case in point....Secret Invasion.  Seven issues of build up where we are led to believe Skrulls had completely overrun the Earth.  One issue of battle where a 2 minute skirmish in NYC utterly and completely defeats every skrull on Earth?

Example 2....World War Hulk.  Months of build up, then Zom, then 12 splash pages of the Sentry, then we're done.  Zom? (Did you catch the Zom skrull in the Captain Britain comic during the Secret Invasion?)

Example 3....Every thing Bendis does.  In his latest interviews Bendis has been saying that everything that's been happening lately, all the super-advertised cross-overs one after the other, are all build up for what's to come.  Secret Invasion finally gets here after years of build up.  After waiting patiently we find Secret Invasion itself is 7 issues of build up followed by one completely forgettable issue of battle.

(The rant changes from a discussion on build-up to a general rant on everything wrong with Marvel...........again)

Dark Reign?  Really?  C'Mon!  Its already been done.  Does anyone remember the villains all getting together back in the late 80's during one of the industry's first multibook cross-overs?  Bonus points to anyone who can put a name on what I'm talking about. 

The exasperating thing about Bendis is that when you read any random issue, the issue itself is pretty good.  So you don't know you're in for a complete shellacking until months down the road when you look back on the entire storyline and weep over how much money you've spent on comics over the last year.

I'm coming to believe comics are like a drunken vacation to Vegas.  You drop your money down, but the industry odds are always stacked against a big pay-out for you!

What do you think?

P.S.  First Captain America, and now the Wasp.  How long before Bendis announces his new book "The UnDead Avengers".  The Avengers book where dead members from the past arise from the grave and zombie-out as they fight crime.  Of course this will lead into the mini series Marvel Zombies 18 and a cross-over with Army of Darkness.  REMEMBER, you heard it here first!

Excelsi....ah, %^$#$# it! I'm out!

Bart

I'm out too!

Labels: Comic Book Reviews, Comics, Marvel Comics

Posted by Jon on Friday, December 12, 2008 at 12:32 PM | Permalink